Is salvation through obedience Hebrews 5:9

Question

 

Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, he became to all the ones obeying him the reason of eternal deliverance;

Answer 1

If salvation were to be earned through obedience, this would contradict Ephesians 2:8-9:

"for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory."

Thus, rather than being prescriptive, Hebrews 5:9 is descriptive of all true believers.

Comments

DANIEL is wrong 100%.  Salvation is not earned through obedience, it is a free gift, but obedience is verification of the presence of the Spirit that is received at Salvation.  As Adam Clarke commented almost 200 years ago, ""In this verse," says Dr. Macknight, "three things are clearly stated:

1. That obedience to Christ is equally necessary to salvation with believing on him.
2. That he was made perfect as a high priest by offering himself a sacrifice for sin, Hebrews 8:3.
3. That, by the merit of that sacrifice, he hath obtained pardon and eternal life for them who obey him."

He tasted death for every man; but he is the author and cause of eternal salvation only to them who obey him. It is not merely believers, but obedient believers, that shall be finally saved. Therefore this text is an absolute, unimpeachable evidence, that it is not the imputed obedience of Christ that saves any man. Christ has bought men by his blood; and by the infinite merit of his death he has purchased for them an endless glory; but, in order to be prepared for it, the sinner must, through that grace which God withholds from no man, repent, turn from sin, believe on Jesus as being a sufficient ransom and sacrifice for his soul, receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, be a worker together with him, walk in conformity to the divine will through this divine aid, and continue faithful unto death, through him, out of whose fullness he may receive grace upon grace."
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

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Anonymous, I think you and Daniel actually agree, at least pretty close.  I think you're both trying to say that, while only Christ's work saves us, all people that are truly saved will demonstrate obedience in their life.  The answer to the original question "Is salavation through obedience" is No; but on the other hand, if there is no obedience through the Spirit, then that shows that there was no salvation.

Answer 2

In love, I agree with Joseph. Daniel, Anonymous, Joseph, and myself all agree on the same thing. Daniel was stating the exact same thing Anonymous was stating. Which it seems like we all agree on- that salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, not by works.. however if one is truly saved then the fruit of that grace will be shown which entails obidience. But this obedience is not of the former law out of obligation, yet it is obedience out of pure love and unison with Jesus Christ.

Answer 3

As for the question, "Is salvation through obedience Hebrews 5:9" and the subsequent discussion, which cites Ephesians 2:8-9:

I do not at present have time to write a detailed analysis, but here are the primary factors which must be taken into consideration:

= First of all, the meaning of any word, phrase, or utterance is governed by the context.

= Second, the Scripture is a coherent whole, no part of which may be disregarded, John 10:35.  Accordingly, any word, phrase, or utterance found in the Scripture has as its ultimate context the Scripture as a whole.

= Ephesians 2:8-9 is the lynch-pin upon which hangs the Protestant doctrine of Personal Salvation.  

= The remainder of this enumeration demonstrates that, when Ephesians 2:8-9 is viewed in the context of the Scripture as a whole, it is difficult to argue that the verb SOZO ("saved") refers to the entire process of salvation.

= According to the Protestant "Gospel of Personal Salvation," Salvation is offered without condition and without obligation, and is obtained by means of a momentary transaction, much as one obtains a ticket for entrance into an amusement park.

= Moreover, the Protestant "Gospel of Personal Salvation" asserts that the transaction in which Salvation is obtained is irreversible.  The Protestant reasons that, having done nothing to obtain Salvation, man can do nothing to lose Salvation.

= The Scripture time and time again declares and teaches that Salvation has conditions, a price, and obligations, and that the process through which Salvation is obtained is lifelong:

- There is a Way which leads to Life (which is to say, Life Everlasting) and at the entrance to the Way is a Gate.  Thus, the first stage of the process is entry into the Way of Life.

- A price is to be paid.  The price takes the form of repentance, sacrifice, obedience, and endurance.  Consider, for example, the necessity of taking up the torture stake (KJV, "cross"), and (citing the confrontation of two armies and the construction of a tower) the prudence of counting the cost of discipleship before setting out in the Way.

- The process continues until the Resurrection, which is the concluding stage of the process.  

- (Note that the terms "salvation" and "deliverance" are synonyms.)  The only Salvation which is guaranteed by the Lord is the ultimate deliverance, which is deliverance from the Grave; that deliverance is provided by the Resurrection Out From the Dead.

- Though saved POSITIONALLY upon entry into the Way of Life, those   walking in the Way are not saved IN ACTUALITY until the   Resurrection.

= The process which results in Salvation is the pursuit of Sanctification (Hebrews 12:14).  This pursuit is the activity in which the Justified is engaged as he walks in the Way of Life.  Sanctification also is termed the "renewing of the mind" (Romans 12:2, Philippians 2:5), the "putting on of Christ" (Romans 13:4), and being "conformed  to the image of Christ" (Romans 8:29).

= And though the sole means of justification is faith, apart from works, Jesus declares that justification is revocable; Jesus illustrates the fact with the parable of the unjust steward, Matthew 18:21-35.

= Much confusion stems from conflating and confounding Justification and Salvation; the two are distinct.

= The independence of Justification and Salvation is seen in the warning of the sixth chapter and the tenth chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrews.  The passages speak of Jews who, having entered the Way of Life, subsequently turn out of the Way, repudiating the need for atonement.  They are of the same mind as those who cried out to Pilate, "Crucify him!" with the oath, "His blood be upon us and upon our children!"  Given opportunity, they would crucify afresh the Son of God.

= (Explanation of the Talmudic concept of justification.)  The Talmudic Jew views man as partly evil and partly good, with "Just" being the state in which the good outweighs the evil.  This viewpoint, of good and evil weighed in a set of balances, explains the constant mention of "alms" in the Gospel Accounts, and the philanthropy of the contemporary Jew.  Though he recognizes the presence of evil in his being, the Talmudic Jew has no sense of guilt, and he never seeks to have his sin washed away or carried away.  Instead, he seeks to accumulate sufficient good to counterbalance the evil.

= Examination of passages which disallow "works" reveals that the works in view are "works of the Law," the Law being the Law of Moses; consider Romans 3:20, Galatians 2:16.  Though perfect observation of the Law can prevent a man from falling deeper into debt, it cannot remove the indebtedness.

= Having misconstrued passages such as Romans 3:20 and Galatians 2:16 as:

(1) applying to Salvation (as opposed to Justification) and

(2) having to do with ill-defined "works" (as opposed to the work of keeping the commandments of the Law of Moses),

the Protestant must wrest countless passages of the Scripture, attempting to devise for each an interpretation which is in conformance with his erroneous beliefs.

Comments

EXCURSUS:  CANONICITY

= The command "Prove all things," I Thessalonians 5:21, has to do specifically with validating Scripture penned subsequent to the Incarnation.  

= A touchstone is essential to compliance with the command of I Thessalonians 5:21.  That touchstone is the body of Scripture which today is known as the Septuagint.  The Septuagint, a translation of the Ancient Hebrew Text into the Koine dialect of Greek, was certified by Christ Jesus and the Apostles, by means of citing from it.  Apart from that certification, there would be no touchstone, for the Ancient Hebrew Text no longer is extant.

= The citations of Jesus and the Apostles generally do not agree with the reading of the Masoretic Hebrew Text; this fact establishes the spurious nature of the Masoretic Hebrew Text, that it is a counterfeit of the Ancient Hebrew Text.  Accordingly, it should be apparent that no truth can be established on the basis of the Masoretic Hebrew Text, other than the truth that the Masoretic Hebrew Text is a counterfeit which is of no value to the Christian.

= The Jews of Berea, Acts 17:10-11, demonstrate the methodology of validation; that methodology is comparison against the Scripture.

= Inasmuch as any individual having an elementary education is capable of "proving all things" by comparison against the Scripture, it should be apparent that to relegate to a so-called "Church Council" decisions regarding canonicity is to abnegate the personal responsibility which the command of I Thessalonians 5:21 imposes upon him.

= Protestants, particularly those who worship at the altar of Reform Theology and venerate the Westminster Confession, generally seem ignorant of the fact that the members of the various Church Councils were mired to the neck in Papistry, and that the Papal mechanism already had begun to function in the days of the Apostles.  In the second chapter of II Thessalonians, Paul speaks of the Man of Sin, which is the Pope as an office, and of himself (Paul) as the restrainer.  Contrary to the followers of Scofield, the Restrainer is neither the Church nor the Spirit of God; nor is Paul speaking of a yet-future event.  As evidenced by passages such as the account of the intimidation of Peter by men dispatched by James, Galatians chapter 2, Paul was the sole Apostle restraining the subversion of the Church by James of Jerusalem and his Talmudic cohorts.  The entity responsible for the subversion is the perennial enemy of Christ Jesus and the Body of Christ, namely, the Talmudic Jew.  And the chief architect of the subversion appears to be none other than the false Apostle, James of Jerusalem, brother of Jesus the Christ.

= The Christian who takes the trouble to apply the command "Prove all things" to the English Bible shall be richly rewarded.  In the first place, the Christian shall rip out the portion translated from the Masoretic Hebrew Text, replacing it with a translation of the Septuagint.

= From the fact that neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever make mention of Esther or cite from the Book of Esther, the Christian knows that the Book of Ester is not canonical.  Moreover, compared against almost any book of the Scripture, the Book of Esther is glaring in that (1) it has no criticism of the Jew, and (2) it is devoid of the concept of mercy.  The second factor is to be expected of the Talmudic Jew, whose watchwords are "Revenge" and "Never Forget."

= Continuing his purge, the Christian shall rip out the pernicious Epistle of James, which gainsays both Moses and Paul regarding the justification of Abraham, and, upon examination, is seen to be but a primer in Talmudic reasoning.

= Culminating the housecleaning, the Christian shall purge out the Book of Revelation, having discovered that, at every turn, the narrative of the book stands in contradiction to the Scripture.  Moreover, comparing the Book of Revelation with the epistles of John, the Christian shall realize that the literary style and vocabulary cannot possibly be the product of the fisherman John, whose Greek is simple and earthy.  Though many generations of Christian scholars have recognized the spurious nature of the Book of Revelation, few scholars have the temerity to publicly denounce the book.

= Tying up loose ends, the Christian shall discard the Book of Jude and the purported Second Epistle of Peter, for in their absurd assertions concerning "fallen angels," both allude to the myth of the Talmudic Jew.  From inspection of the Psalms and the Book of Hebrews, the Christian understands that there never has been such a thing as a disobedient angel or rebellion in the Angelic Realm.

Answer 4

Yes salvation is based on your obedience. GOD commands obedience. Faith is obedience. Faith is faithfulness and fidelity and steadfastness to GOD’s commandments. Don’t listen to all these liars and deceivers. GOD needs your participation. Faith and repentance proven by deeds is yours and yours alone.
All who say otherwise are liars and deceivers and in bondage.
Not of works lest anyone boast paul was talking about circumcision works. Read the whole chapter. The works of the law has been replaced by the works of faith.
He that says I know GOD and does not keep his commandments is a liar there is no truth in him. 1 John 2:4
That they should repent turn to GOD and do works worthy of repentance. Acts 26:20

Man is justified by works not by faith alone. James 2:24.
You will be judged according to your works

Doesn't matter how much these liars lukewarm servant of sin cry out not of works.
Scripture says otherwise.